Ace

I have never heard a band use it as a metaphor until Tool. I never once said in any post that Tool was original for using Eden in the song. I never said they were the FIRST to do it. I said, "I HAVE YET TO HEAR A BAND USE EDEN." Not once did I claim them the original users of Eden, and I even said that ages ago. I said it wasn't cliche. You're the one that nitpicked like a child, and changed the subject and said, "well that doesn't make em original!" Well, newsflash for you kid, it doesn't make Dylan original either, because it was done plenty of damn times before him. So now that you've danced around providing me proof that Dylan is absolutely the first person to do it, will you quit proving yourself to be like a damn 2 year old, and drop this ****ing subject? It's like you would argue with a damn brick wall if you could. Do you have nothing better to do then sit on musicbanter all day long, and try your best to find random **** to have the last say in every subject? Drop it while you can bungalowbill. I'm done.

Edit: And so I don't get some smartass reply about it, "End of Eden" was written early July of 2007.
Therefore Tool was the first band I've ever heard to use it as a metaphor.
I haven't listened to much of Dylan, and don't intend to any time soon.
Alllllll off topic. The song, Right In Two, is not cliche. I don't see an assload of music about Eden floating around on the internet or radio, anywhere. So good arguing to you Ethan, but I've made my points. If you want to argue with yourself though, keep postin'.

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Originally Posted by RezZ I think I know much better than you ever will how Mettalica is. I used to play for 2 years in a Mettalica cover band.

sleepy jack

You're rehashing your disproven points now and throwing out petty insults. I'm obviously the two year old here. You say I need to learn to admit when I'm wrong? You're clearly tripping on your own words here. You do realize I've never heard it used this way before Tool is essentially saying it's original right? I was the one who said it was cliche and I backed it up, you never disproved it in fact you added to it with the authors comment. The song is unoriginal (as you proved) and cliche (as you helped prove). I will restate my original point since both things have been proven established. The song is cliche and unoriginal, those don't make for good lyrics and lyrics, especially bad ones can't be the saving grace for a song.

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CAPTAIN CAVEMAN

wowee, prog fans sure take being wrong hard

Ace

Your own poetry can be considered cliche, then. How many poems have you posted about some kind of "lover being hurt"? I proved it wasn't cliche, and just because the lyrics don't appeal to you, it doesn't make your opinion a fact. But that's alright. I'm done with this argument, but I am not done with you. We can continue this in pm if you want, but before the end of the week, we will anyway.
Goodnight, Ethan.

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Originally Posted by RezZ I think I know much better than you ever will how Mettalica is. I used to play for 2 years in a Mettalica cover band.

Ace

Considering how religion has been part of my life's education, I fail to see your point on how it's supposed to make me think less of the song. Care to tell us why you feel it is 'mundane'? I fail to see how you can seriously be a Tool fan, and not like the song Right In Two. But you know....opinions are like *******s, and everybody has one. Some just stink O.O

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Originally Posted by RezZ I think I know much better than you ever will how Mettalica is. I used to play for 2 years in a Mettalica cover band.

Rainard Jalen

Well, it'd probably be a stretch to call me a "fan". But I have liked some of their work. Maynard's lyrics used to contain a lot more subtlety and that was one of his strengths. 10,000 Days by contrast felt very forced. None of the points were made with any particular verbal dexterity.

The topic in this particular song is how pointless, needless fighting over territory has been so prevalent in the history of man in spite of having the gift of superior reason over the rest of the animal kingdom, and "free will". It is narrated from the omniscient perspective of the angels. There is nothing profound in this. It is mundane in that it's pretty unspectacularly ordinary and unimaginative. It's been common subject matter for centuries in religious circles. In fact, in the Muslim holy book the angels dispute the creation of man with God, arguing that having this particular creature inhabit the earth will lead to corruption and bloodshed. This is incredibly reminiscent of Maynard's verses. And talking of humans as being more advanced monkeys is as old as anything in the modern world. The entire topic is hackneyed and anything but profound.

Ace

And your saying that this is very overused with today's bands?

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Originally Posted by RezZ I think I know much better than you ever will how Mettalica is. I used to play for 2 years in a Mettalica cover band.

Rainard Jalen

No, but I'm saying that it's fairly mundane subject matter as far as the world of philosophical discussion goes, and putting it in a song is by no means profound. In addition to that I do certainly feel that it wasn't done with much subtlety or many other redeeming lyrical qualities. Maynard's done a lot better than this.

Later on I think I'll return to point out how Vicarious is suspiciously familiar in content to a song by Gang Of Four.

Ace

Well...I hate to break it to you, but the world of modern music is not in the philospohical realm.
And if you don't think the song is cliche, (which I believe you've been neutral on so far), good for you.
I highly doubt most people buy an album, come home, and think, "I wonder what kind of philosophical aspects
I can discern from this song." Specially with most people.
The lyrics may come off that way to you, but your opinion does not make that fact.
Same with mine. My opinion is that the song kicks arse, and you don't like it.
So...you suck....
Appreciate your views though.

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Originally Posted by RezZ I think I know much better than you ever will how Mettalica is. I used to play for 2 years in a Mettalica cover band.

Rainard Jalen

See, what I'm saying is that Tool are purportedly deeply philosophical. MJK writes stuff under the guide of it being profound, poignant, penetrating. If none of these pretenses existed, then there'd be little to say on the matter.