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Originally Posted by RandyMarsh
1. It's still illegal to be a homosexual in well over 40 different countries. Just because somthing is outlawed in a lot of places, doesn't make them right.
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Hehe, that's a funny example you got there. Do you know of any countries that were gay friendly and then decided to make it illegal? That would've been a better example, really. The morale of western society has generally progressed; for example over the last hundred years, there's a general reduction in most types of violence and women and gay rights have been on the rise. I think prohibition of corporal punishment is part of that positive trend and just another step on that progression curve.
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Originally Posted by RandyMarsh
2. How do you know how much of a difference it's made to those contries? It's close to impossible to find out. How many parents were using YOUR definition of corporal punishment before it was outlawed? How many still use it even after it's been outlawed? There's no way to know these kind of things for sure.
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Actually, a long time ago, I posted a report from Sweden on the effect their ban on corporal punishment has had on swedish society in general, which was generally positive. Although you think it's impossible, it
is possible to study the effects of a law and study of the effect of the ban in Sweden has been regular as far as I know.
What you probably mean is that it's impossible to completely isolate the effect of the ban alone. That is true, but an irrelevant criticism because you can still know that an effect you are studying is in large part due to a law or ban. Depending on the analysis you do, you can get a number which tells you the certainty boundaries of the results and stay well within them when you draw your conclusions.
I've made these points several times now and so I assume that they fall on deaf ears. I realize this is likely because you don't know statistics and you don't know scientific method. How sad it is, though, that because of such personal limitations, you're unable to learn anything from experts in the field. If I'm starting to sound condescending, sorry, but I get a bit tired of it. I've posted a wealth of scientific studies and while everyone here rely on, benefit from and believe in scientific research and methodology in many aspects of their lives, suddenly all these studies are unreliable. And this criticism comes from guys like you who have not read them and do not know how they are at all written or quality controlled. To me, it seems your mind's like a train speeding along the same old tracks and nothing (not even unbiased scientific studies) can make you change direction.
I generally believe in where the evidence points. If these studies had concluded that corporal punishment was good for society, I would've been for it.
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Originally Posted by RandyMarsh
3. I have no doubt you can discipline a child without using physical discipline (my parents raised me and my sister just fine without it) however, every kid is different. I've known kids who haven't responded to ANY other kind of discipline. I still say using it as a last resort once in a blue moon when a kid has done something terrible is completely acceptable. And let me just reiterate to be completely clear, I'm not talking about smacking a kid full force, I'm talking about smacking lightly in a less sensitive area (not slapping them in the face or punching them in the throat). A lot of kids respond to it when they don't respond to other forms of discipline.
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I disagree, violence may get immediate conformity but the long-term effects may be negative and as a whole, corporal punishment has a negative effect on society and is not needed to raise new generations of productive, happy and functional members of society. Banning corporal punishment will help remove the negative effect of corporal punishment on society. It's that simple; don't do it. They're kids, and even though a light slap only used in emergencies may seem effective,
you can control them in other ways than using violence.