VEGANGELICA

Anticipation, my strong emotions about the injustice of killing sentient beings were what made me become vegetarian. My first vegetarian night was when I was 5: I was told I had to choose between having no dinner or eating a fish whom I'd seen bludgeoned to death before my eyes. I chose to go without dinner because I felt so strongly that killing that fish was callously brutal, wrong, and unnecessary. Only later (after age 18) did I learn more about the logical reasons for vegetarianism.

Dancing princess is full of emotion and concern about animals and I am no different. I just have had many more years than she has to learn more about the logical reasons for vegetarianism (animal welfare, human health, environmental health). I do not see her as "trying to be different" but rather standing up for and expressing her values.

Ha ha! That made me chuckle, Akira, because it is funny. And also true.

Stormjh, I was surprised to learn some vegans had to ponder about the answer to whether swallowing semen or breastfeeding is "vegan."

Veganism is not a list of dietary restrictions ("don't eat animal products"); veganism is a *lifestyle* that involves treating animals kindly and reducing harm to sentient beings by not using their bodies and not forcing upon animals actions that are intended to harm them.

When a person willingly gives his semen or her breastmilk, and the consumption of the semen and breastmilk does not harm the sentient being (the person), then there is no cause for vegan concern. Orally-raping a man would not be vegan, though!

It is human nature to choose the behaviors we want to express. Although we are biologically omnivores (able to digest animals and plants), this does not mean we have to choose to eat animals or their fluids/eggs.

Four reasons.

First, people still kill the egg-laying hens and dairy cows at young ages, regardless of whether they are free-range or not.

Second, all the male brothers of the egg-laying hens are killed after hatching since they will never lay eggs and it is not cost-effective to use them as broilers. In the U.S., 219 million male "egg-layer" chicks were killed directly after hatching in 2006 (in Iowa, 40 million were killed) (USDA statistics).

People kill these male chicks by gassing, crushing, and grinding them up alive. Similarly, male calves of dairy cows are killed at a young age to be "veal." Producers inseminate dairy cows each year to ensure they produce milk; this leads to people killing many male calves to save money.

Third, calling eggs or milk "free-range" does not assure that the chickens and cows spent time outdoors: "The USDA requires that “free-range” animals have access to outdoor areas, but there is no provision for how long they must spend or how much room they must have outside. The Associated Press reported that the USDA’s regulations don’t “require the birds to actually spend time outdoors, only to have access.”(3) Even if a farmer opened the door to a coop with thousands of birds inside and then closed it before any chickens went outside, he would still be able to use the free-range label.(4)" PETA Media Center > Factsheets > Free-Range and Organic Meat, Eggs, and Dairy Products: Conning Consumers?

Fourth, being vegan involves treating other animals in ways that serve their own ends and purposes, rather than our own. I do not want to exploit sentient beings. Taking eggs from chickens or milk from a cow is using these animals for our own purposes, not theirs.

Since it takes a much smaller quantity of farmland to produce vegetarian foods than to produce the vegetables and grain to support an omnivorous diet, most meat-eaters actually cause more harm to wild animals than vegetarians do. The reason: most livestock (chickens, pigs, cows) are grain-fed, requiring more farmland to be in production than if people were vegan.

What is moronic about these reasons for being vegetarian?

"It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases." American Dietetic Association Vegetarian Diets

"Limit red meat—and avoid processed meat. Research suggests that people who eat more than 18 ounces a week of red meat have a higher risk of colon cancer. So make red meat—beef, pork, lamb—only an occasional part of your diet, if you eat it at all. And skip the processed stuff—bacon, hot dogs, and deli meats—since that's also been linked to higher cancer risk." Harvard School of Public Health. Protein - What Should You Eat? - The Nutrition Source - Harvard School of Public Health

Your reason for eating meat is the main one I think meat-eaters have: taste. At least you are honest, Freebase.

I see the debate over vegetarianism vs. eating animals as a debate over values. Do you value the lives of animals because you care about the animals for their own sake? Or, do you simply value yourself and your tastebuds? I answer with the former; you answer quite clearly with the latter.

Here's a question for you, Freebase, and others who eat animals. What qualities would an animal (fish, bird, sheep or pig or cow, etc.) need to have to cause you to *not* want to eat these animals? Pigs are very intelligent, so I assume it isn't a lack of intelligence of the animals that makes you feel they are "fair game" for being eaten Pig Video Arcades Critique Life in the Pen

If a livestock animal were able to say to you, "NO!" would this stop you from eating her?

I care about animals because I know they have feelings and I know they can suffer. I have pondered for a long time if it is possible to "get" other people to care about animals when these people just don't have the feelings there. I still don't know the answer. However, I think the more information people have about a subject, the more informed their decision will be. I can't change people's feelings, but I can try to inform them.

Here are two videos for you to watch, if you wish, to consider more what the experiences of animals are like. When I watch these videos, I can't help but care for these animals and wish people would stop killing and eating them.

(1) Abusing hogs and killing piglets by blunt trauma (standard industry practice) in Iowa:



(2) People slaughtering sheep, pigs, and cows in England:

English slaughterhouses exposed: 10 minute overview on Vimeo

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