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Originally Posted by Neapolitan
Did anyone ever say something and you thought to yourself it could go either way. Like if you were walking with a friend outside and it's a dreary drizzling day and he said "lovely weather we're having, aren't we." And you think to yourself well he could like a rainy day, or maybe he could hate a rainy day, too.
There was nothing in what I said that was an attack, I was telling you what I thought about martyrdom. I thought if I did that you would respond and maybe I would get a better picture of what you were saying. I was only a little confused about your attitude behind what you saying. I guess they're linked together imho, "to sacrifice their lives" & "self-sacrifice" plus in the context of what was said they were two example of the way you say things about Christianity that leave guessing. And anyway phrases like "to sacrifice their lives" & "self-sacrifice" aren't exclusively Christian, a journalist or historian can say those words about anybody eg a soldier.
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What I said was not completely ambiguous if you looked at what was around the phrase. It isn't the same scenario.
I understand that self-sacrifice is preached beyond Christianity, which is why I don't consider Christianity to be the root of evil or anything. Either way, it still preaches self-sacrifice.
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In war a soldier could be killed on the battlefeild or he could be captured and given choice of revealing secrets or torture and death. He doesn't want to be tortured, he doesn't want to die, but also he doesn't want to reveal information that would lead other soldiers to die. He doesn't reveal the information to the enemy and faces the consequence because he hates himself or hates life, but sees a greater good in saving his follow soldier & friends. It's just the situation he is in, and the choices he's given and you can't say he hates himself because he sees a greater good the life of other soldiers. Matryrdom is similar. Most the time a martyrs are just killed because of his/her faith. But sometimes there is a choice involve like in the case of Thomas More. Exteriorly it may look like there is no self interest or self-hatred invovle, but interiorly the motive is based on a greater good.
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The greater good is the progression of God's kingdom, which is a kingdom in which everybody is sacrificing themselves to everybody else. Is there a good greater than yourself?