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Old 06-26-2009, 02:08 PM   #123 (permalink)
Son of JayJamJah
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Originally Posted by Wayfarer View Post
Firstly, at no point has there ever existed full-fledged communism, let alone in the past century. Secondly, what does it mean, to you, for a political ideology to "fail"? Was it the collapse of the Soviet Union that brought you to this verdict that socialism has been proven a "failure"? Thirdly, if you knew the first thing about socialism, you would be aware of the fact that the notion that, under socialism, everyone necessarily receives equal compensation for their labour is an absolute myth.

Marxists view profit as being a very contemptible incentive for the progression of society to begin with, and it is the very essence and purpose of the transitional stage of the revolutionary dictatorship of the proletariat (or, socialism) to strip society of that subversive, detrimental, deplorable, paternal "reward-punishment" psychology. It is what separates Marxism-Leninism from the perceived idealism of anarchism and left-communism.

See, "human nature", in the sense that champions of capitalism so regularly use the term, must refer to something characteristic of all humans at all times. For example, the "stalk and pounce" impulse is characteristic of all felines at all times. The insatiable greed of humans, however, is quite apparently not characteristic of all humans at all times, and even when it is characteristic of us, it evinces in many differing ways - not all of them being entirely materialistic. Under capitalism, there is ceaseless uncertainty about the future, and thus one is forced to continually strive to accumulate more because of the risk of losing what he/she has. As follows, under capitalism, it is quite rational to be greedy. In an egalitarian society, the same rules do not apply. Looking at it from a more evolutionary viewpoint: if the instincts and physicality of a species are shaped by its environment, and humanity's primary environment is society, we are not insatiably greedy hence capitalism, we live in a very prominently capitalist world hence the insatiable greed found so often in so many of us. As humans we are quite apparently capable of compassion and selflessness, we've simply been thrust into a situation in which competitiveness, aggression and greed are rewarded.


Which governments, exactly, are you referring to? Have you not also perceived of the crumbling of a myriad of capitalist nations? What about the Misean, anarcho-capitalist Somalia? There's a prime example of exactly where lassez-faire gets us.


The "free" market is anything but free. Where is the freedom in being compelled by the threat of starvation and death to sell your labour-power to a member of the class towards whom the system is slanted in the first place?
To the first paragraph; yes I'd say the collapse of the Soviet Union is what you call failure, if you disagree fine, but I think that's a bit of a reach. As for as no real communist nations, maybe in theory the don't fit the bill exactly, but perception is reality and if you asked anyone if the USSR was a communist state, they'd say yes.

The first bolded comment to me is the crux of our dissension. I think that's a good thing for a person. The second bolded one is me calling BS. This is never an issue for anyone in America who does not deserve it. I'll explain more if you need me to.

Capitalist governments collapse when there is government corruption which is why I favor less government not more.

I still think you were a bit harsh with some of this and other posts leading up to it, we disagree and you're not changing my mind anymore then I'm changing yours. Questioning my understanding of the issues is very disrespectful, questioning my way of thinking is always acceptable.

Sorry for the delayed response.
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