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Originally Posted by JayJamJah
I want Bill Gates and Oprah to become mega rich if they did not they'd not have spent the billions of dollars they have building schools, hospitals and parks around the United States and the World, that's better then giving i to our government and handing out check for nothing to a bunch of unemployed unmotivated people.
Above all else Tore, the more I see the argument, the more immoral it becomes, it's stealing really, to take only from the top and give only to the bottom. Robin Hoodesque sure, but it's still theft.
In a socialist society it takes a lot longer to become wealthy and as you mentioned the ceiling is lower, the major difference in philosophy is I don't believe giving people money makes them better off, in fact I think it cripples them. That's how Paris Hilton ended up like she did.
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While they can make schools, they only do so for portion of their money. The government could use all of it (not all
their money, but if they had the same amount). I chose names that are known and so how they appear outward and spend their money is important, but think of all those rich people in the background who don't build schools and don't give back to the society.
I can't say I agree that it's stealing. These people live in a society in which they could grow and have success. Could they make that kind of cash if they were living alone in a cave somewhere? Oprah's money comes from the pockets of the people of America, society lifted her up. Considering the immense excess she has, it's only fair she should return some of that wealth to the society that brought it in the first place.
You can say that money comes back in the form of schools and so on, but the general trend is it doesn't. As Sleepy Jack posted, it's been accumulating on the top more and more since the 70s - obviously there's some kind of positive feedback loop which is taking wealth from the bottom and feeding the top layers of society and that trend will pull USA deeper into the pit unless you can somehow turn the tide. Some of the that wealth gathering in people at the top is wealth which is lost from society - until it's given back.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayJamJah
In a socialist society it takes a lot longer to become wealthy and as you mentioned the ceiling is lower, the major difference in philosophy is I don't believe giving people money makes them better off, in fact I think it cripples them. That's how Paris Hilton ended up like she did.
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Compared to your America, I live in a very socialist society. Here I'm a student which means I don't have a job and get by on a government loan which I only have to pay back part of in the future when I'm working so yes, I'm smooching off the state (my biology education is free - payed for by the state). I don't feel bad about it because when I buy something, I pay money to the government and when I get hired as a biologist, I'll give back to the government in the way of taxes. What comes around goes around, but in the end most people are net givers to society which makes it better for all.
Now, I've been to America and I was not surprised to see it wasn't exactly like Seinfeld or CSI, but after visiting and staying with 3 different families in New York, I was surprised to see that my living standards as a student in Norway are higher than any of those 3 families and these are people with real jobs. America is a country with vast amounts of natural resources and everything else going for it, so I think there's probably something that could be improved on.
My point is living in a socialist country, I'm already quite well off. There's more to go around for everyone - well, almost - we don't have any Paris Hiltons here (who is richly rewarded by the US society by the way).
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I hope I'm not offending anyone, but I get a bit irked when I see all these suggested and predicted problems with wealth redistribution and more socialistic politics because I'm not experiencing any of these issues myself. I think we do experience the suggested benefits however. I admitted I don't know everything about America and that there's stuff I could learn, but maybe there are some lessons you guys could learn too from outside your borders.