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Originally Posted by Crowquill
Taking Saddam out of power wasn't why we went into Iraq. Weapons programs was not why we went into Iraq. al-Queda links is not why we went into Iraq.
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If so then this brings in a new question. Who gives a sh*t?
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We went into Iraq so gain control of natural resources. We've been doing it for years, justifying our imperialism with so many righteous excuses, but really invading to control the hot-item resources of the year. In the 1850's with Mexico it was cotton, now it's petroleum. Our war in Iraq is nothing new, and our moral-obligation reasoning is nothing new. In the 21st century our obligation is to spread democracy, in the 20th and 19th centuries it was White-Man's burden. Only the terminology has changed.
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Regardless of our reasons, Iraq would have been a threat down the road (its good to look ahead) and Democracy should be spread to the middle east, it dosen't have to be by force, but we should show them how it works, and that it
can work, right now we're giving them the benefit of the doubt.
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Secondly, even if our reasoning, after all the other reasons we were given failed, was to remove Saddam from power, that is none of our business.
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You need to learn how to look ahead.
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Actually, we don't care. We don't have any intention of pulling out, ever.
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The US is constructing the biggest foreign embassy in the world, directly in Bahgdad. We want to be in control of Iraq, and the government will almost certainly get away with it.
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What state do you live in? I'm sure we got it by invading it.
Sadly, its capitalism at work, thats just the way it is. They would be better under our rule than Saddams. Only they won't be under our rule, because we have no plains of taking over Iraq.
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Also you mention burning shitloads of money. George Bush, Dick Cheney, and Karl Rove don't care. Are you kidding me? You think this war has driven them personally into debt? You think Haliburton is losing money because of this war. YOU and ME have to pay for this, not the politicians in Washington.
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I don't pay taxes and I collect disability, so just change that to "you have to pay for it". Isn't democracy great?
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Boy, you've got bad logic. Just because I mention Saddam and Muhhamed Mossadeq in the same post doesn't mean they are being compared. The reason I mentioned Mohhamed Mossadeq was to demonstrate the fact that the US does not support democracies, we crush them.
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Yeah, because in the centuries since this nation was founded, our polices
never changed.
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Which kinda contradicts the reasons that YOU seem to be using as justification for this war. We do not foster democracies, we crush them.
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No we don't. That was one example of something we did. At this point your hate for America has gone way beyond the laws of logic and common sense. If we hate democracy so much, why do we govern ourselves with a democracy? Wouldn't free trade be easier if all the nations were democracies, wouldn't it be easier for us? Wouldn't it be easier for US citezins and hell, wouldn't it be easier for those in power? What f*cking reason do we have to "crush them"? Stop copying and pasting stuff from MoveOn.Org.
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No comparison was being made between Saddam and Mossadeq. Mossadeq was a democratically elected leader, and we overthrew him because he had plans to nationalize his oil fields. Instead, we reinstated a dictatorship with a brutal Shah. Quit using your silly logic to refute points.
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And we helped Osama.
Its not like I've forgotten the bad things we have done. I'm telling you dammit, this is different, this is not Mexico circa 1850, this is not Iran circa 1950s, this is NOT Cambodia, its NOT Nicaragua. Its a very different situation and you fail to realise that.
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I don't know about you, but when I hear about fundamentalist Christians bombing abortions clinics, I don't let out a gut-busting laugh. Maybe you do, but not me.
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YouTube - CNN Sept. 11 live on air video 9/11
YouTube - CNN 9-11 Attacks Coverage
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We don't have any intention of leaving, once again. We will do the same thing with Iraq that the UK did with the Middle East after WW1.
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I highly doubt we will make a mistake like that again.
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We will install an Arab facade. A group of US-controlled Arab leaders who will give Iraqi's the impression they are being self-governed. Do you know anything about T.E Lawrence? Arab facade was, I believe, the exact word used by the British to describe their policy in the Middle East.
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You should be a fiction writer, because thats all this is.
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You don't care what our true reasons were? You don't care that we sent thousands of Americans to die for a lie? Tell their mothers that. I bet they care. Also, the USA harbors terrorists, we have no evidence however, that Saddam did.
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We don't harbor terrorists, not with any knowledge of the terrorists, where and who they are and what they intend to do. But I guess what you mean by harboring terrorists is that they simply live here, why is that? Because we welome so many immigrants? Nah, can't be.
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Yeah, Saudi Arabia is a terrible place to live. But they're our buddies! Why? Well, they have rich citizens and the largest oil fields in the Middle East of course.
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And thats something I think is wrong, I think they should be dealt with.
This is your problem, you think I'm defending the goverment and its policies, Bush and his policies, I'm not. I don't like Bush or his supporters, I think he's a mediocre president. All I'm doing is defending the idea that Iraq should have been dealt with. And you're throwing a hissy fit over it.
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We shouldn't be in charge of 'dealing' with any nations. Kuwait and Iran, two countries which have been invaded by, and border Iraq, said they did not feel threatened by them whatsoever.
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Sources please?
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Yet the US, the greatest military force on the planet dozens of thousands of miles away, view them as an imminent threat? You've got to have a propogandameister to get Americans to believe that. I guess you fell for it.
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They invaded Kuwait, tried to kill off a whole ethnic group (Kurds) and lied to the UN many times about developing weapons. How in the hell are they not a threat?
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Religion existing accounts for millions of deaths every century, and the religious WANT it to control the government. They aren't satisfied with just believing, they want it to be policy that you believe. Hell, GW senior says he doesn't think that atheists should be allowed citizenship. Religion DOES control the government. Who do you think is the Republicans biggest constituency? Evangelicals. Republicans appeal to them, they love their fundie fan-base.
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Wow, I never knew this,
ever. I sure learn a lot from you.
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How do you know what happens if we leave? It is already in the midst of a civil war, civilians are dying constantly, Americans are dying constantly, it really can't get much worse. Us pulling out, well, we don't know what'll happen. But we do know what happens if we stay, and it is certainly not any better.
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Yeah it is.
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Talk about horrible logic. Are you always this fallacious when it comes to arguing? I mean, you could at least have posted a picture of a bad revolutionary, you didn't even do that. You posted a picture of a man who wasn't even a part of the Bolshevik revolution. You should have mentioned the true revolutionaries, Lenin and Trotsky, both of whom were progressive-minded men who DESPISED Stalin and did everything in their power to keep him OUT of power. You don't care about that though, you just want to make factually incorrect, logically ridiculous points, right?
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If it weren't for the revolution, Stalin would have never rose to power in the first place. They were actually better off living under the Russian Empire.
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How about a nice list of all those great revolutionaries who brought about change for their people.
Simon Bolivar
George Washington
Thomas Jefferson
Miguel Hidalgo
Patrick Henry
Jose de San Martin
Fransisco de Miranda
Toussainte L'Ouverturre
Jose Maria Morrelos
Bernardo O'Higgins
Antonio Jose de Sucre
Juan Pablo Duarte
Jose Bonifacio
Jose Miguel Carrera
Spartacus
Manuel Rodriguez
Maximillian Robespierre
Pedro I
Leon Trotsky
Mahatma Ghandi
Nelson Mandela
Tupac Katari
T. E. Lawrence
Sitting Bull
Qui Jin
Osceola
Nat Turner
Francois Mackandel
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Those were the gold old days, unfortunately now, the only people who call for revolution are Communists or Muslims, and with them revolution generally ends in disaster.
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I could continue, and continue, and continue. Point is, you argue with terrible logic, like, the worst.
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Says the guy who thinks that pointing out things that Christians did 700 years ago is a good way to prove that Iraq wasn't a threat.