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Originally Posted by Crowquill
The citizens of Iraq, they could have revolted. People call for revolution when they're tired of their government. A little revolution now and then is a good thing; the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. But we went in their for our own purposes I highly doubt Bush gave a fuck, if he did he has quite a few countries to fix, but he won't.
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I already said we went to Iraq under false pretenses, thats pretty much a fact. It dosen't change the fact that taking Saddam out of power was a good thing.
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We don't care about it, we care about the oil. Just look at what happened with Mohammed Mosaddeq, a democratically elected president who came into power after the overthrow of Shah. The US didn't like his policies of nationalizing the oil reserves in his country, so we came through and restored the Shah to power and overthrew his democratical government. After all that oil isn't his right, its ours? We don't like what hes doing with it, so we overthrow it.
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Actually we do care about it, because if we didn't we would have pulled out a long ass freaking time ago, if it was just for Oil, why still be there now, why continue to risk ourselves and burn a sh*tload of money if we already got what we came for? Why not just build rigs, kill everybody that gets in the way and make bail, if we are truly so selfish.
I also wouldn't compare Saddam to the Prime Minister of Iran from over 50 years ago, the scenarios are pretty different.
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Yeah but the christians who are opposed to it also probably work on sunday and shave, I think that says alot about how strictly they follow the bible, they still use it to their own needs like most christians do.
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But Muslims don't do it as often, they take it much more literally, this is why Muslim extremism is such a big deal and while Christian extremism is just something to joke about on the Howard Stern show.
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Iraq was wrong before we went in, but we havn't helped make it better and I don't think were going to make it better. Let them rule how they want to
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Fine, lets let them build another theocratic police state, it will almost be like we were never there in the first place.
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plenty of nations rule they way they did, we never once stepped in and probably won't unless they have something we want/we feel like taking it over.
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Or if we sincerely view them as a threat. With Iraq it was both, what we were told about their alledged involvement with 9/11 and WMDs were generally not true. But they were harboring terrorists, before the war and especially after, some with the intention of coming here. Like I said, I don't care what our true reasons were.
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You can't tell people of certain religious, especially a dominate religions they can't rule because they're biased due to their beliefs, that wouldn't be very fair would it?
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I can tell them that they shouldn't establish a goverment that enforces their beliefs on others, every nation that is a Muslim theocratic state is a horrible place to be, try living as a woman in Saudi Arabia for a year.
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Because christians are a shining example of valuing life, the crusades?
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So, we shouldn't deal with Islamist nations because of something that Christians did.... Over 700 years ago?
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Religion has no place in a position of power, religion can be a positive force in peoples lives, give them something so they can sleep at night but lets look at history, religion as a whole not just a specific one has done more bad than good.
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Be realistic please. Religion isnt gonna be "wished away". Its here and a part of life. And I have no problem with Religion existing as long as it dosen't control the goverment.
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No, and even if we do successfully launch a democracy do you think they're going to forgive us for killing as man of them as we did?
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Compare that to just leaving, making a big mess and leaving THEM to clean it up. You think thats better?
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Nations revolt, i'm sure they would've been happier with a revolution and overthrowing Sadam than a nation coming in unasked and invading and killing.
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Because we all know how well revolutions turn out.
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I don't think we'll ever have a good reputation with extremists, their books teach them to hate. You know how many islams consider suicide bombing justified? Alot and honestly, I think our reputation with the world is more important.
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They look for excuses to hate us, they're gonna hate us weither we stay in Iraq or not, thats a fact. But they will have a brand new reason to hate us if we just plain got up and left, after everything that has happened.
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They don't want us there, other nations didn't either, if we pulled out now, even though its way way way too late and continues to get later at least we can show we're not a bunch of stubborn idiots. Thousands of soldiers dying because Bush is too proud to admit he was wrong is stupid.
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Other nations didnt want us to invade, but they're not gonna forgive us if we leave. In fact that will become just another excuse.
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Yeah but that doesn't change the fact our reputation is terrible right now
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So lets make it worse.
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Bush has single-handedly turned america into such a terror-obsessed country
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At least give 9/11 some credit, oh wait, I forgot that Bush was responsable for that too.
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with his patriot acts and everything. I'm surprised he doesn't come outright and announce his own SS.
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Please, Bush is not Hitler, such comparisons should
never be made.
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I have criticized this a few times, but still I think the fact every band has an anti-bush song says alot, you really can't dispute it anymore, his presidency has been a complete failure.
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Like I give a sh*t what Fat Mike says.
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I don't understand that, because harboring terrorists would make us a terrorist state by US standards, and we knowingly harbor them, we've even had terrorists work for us, hell we've even supported them remember Nicaraugua? In 1985, Ronald Regan declared Nicaragua an imminent threat to US safety. Nicaragua, a dirt poor Latin American country with no unconventional weaponry, was an IMMINENT THREAT to the greatest military force in history. This is what Ronald claimed. Why? Why were they such a big threat? Because they attempted to establish a democratic government WITHOUT the help of the United States.
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Iraq was no Nicaragua, not with a guy who had the production of Nuclear energy in the works and owned many palaces and enough cash to build underground tunnels and bunkers spanning everywhere through Bagdad and with god knows what stored there.
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The Sandistinis were a democratically elected government who received no support from the United States, but DID allow Cuban contractors to build air fields in their country. Well, we can't have that. A country becoming democratic without the US's help? That's bad business, it sets an example for other countries. "Hey, we can become free and truly democratic without having the United States pulling the strings". So what did Ronnie do about this? Well, naturally, he armed terrorists to commit horrible atrocities against civilians in favor of the Sandistinis. In fact, you can read accounts of children who watched their mothers have their breasts cut off. Watched their fathers be lined up and executed. Horrible atrocities, all sponsored by your friendly neighborhood United States. This actually caused a big fuss in the 80's because, the money that Ronald Regan was giving to the Contas (the terrorists) was coming from the profit which his administration made by ILLEGALLY selling weapons to Iran. It is commonly referred to as the Iran-Contra Affair.
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What does any of this have to do with our current state in Iraq? I never said America could do no wrong, I'm a Cherokee, I should f*cking know.
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While the hearings were taking place to see who was in the wrong during these sales and fundings, good old Oliver North was in his office shredding classified documents which undoubtedly incriminated the president, as well as himself and many others. Oh yeah, what does Oliver North do nowadays? He hosts a TV show on FAUX News of course. The United States has no interest in bringing democracy to anyone, that is a total facade. It appeals to patriotic Americans with a hard on for the word democracy. We crush democracies, we don't support them.
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Our policies changed since 9/11. Terrorism within our borders was never a big deal until then, since then we ARE concerned with what happens in the middle east and what happens in Iraq, because it directly influences the terrorists that come here. National Security is our top priority, so what goes on in Iraq and elsewhere is very important.
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I mean I guess its not surprising, since the United States Government is probably one of the most evil organizations on the planet as far as killing people, and this country has become so greedy and tried to hide it under their 'war against terror' and everything which are just fronts for our own needs.
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Man you really know how to completely miss the point. I'm not at all what you would call a gung ho patriot. I'm not at all proud of the many bad things my country has done, and my politics generally lean left. But remembering the bad things that we shouldn't have done isn't going to justify not doing something we SHOULD have done.