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Old 07-05-2007, 11:20 AM   #13 (permalink)
Inuzuka Skysword
Existential Egoist
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Pennsylvania
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That's because Plato is science and has been proved. Don't you think it's kind of ridiculous to say "well, all the important parts survived". Don't you think that some self-serving bastard would have changed something important at one point?
Let me put it this way. If the God of the Bible is real he would not let those things happen because he loves mankind. He gave his son to die for every man's sins, which is the greatest love of all.

And then if God isn't real, well I haven't a thing to lose. After all there would be no purpose to life anyways.


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Originally Posted by Pilzkopf View Post
A short summary of The Bible Against Itself: Why the Bible Seems to Contradict Itself, by Randel McCraw Helms:


If you open up the Bible and read it straight through, you will notice two things that should not be true if it had been written as a coherent whole and with a single purpose. First, the Bible is quite repetitious; second, the Bible frequently seems to contradict itself. Randel Helms examines the cultural and historical factors that produce these seeming contradictions.
1. The bible repeats things to show how important it is. You know. Not only that, but you can also argue the Bible's repetitive cycle of man's sin, slavery to sin, and then salvation is one of the most important things in the Bible. When you look at any Christian's relationship with God like a marriage, you will notice that we are backstabbing God 24/7 and cheating on him. In other words, we are like prostitutes, always selling ourselves to sin.

2.The Bible contradicting itself. I have heard many of these things, but none seem to ever make sense, but I will read on.

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All books were written for or against some point of view, and the books of the Bible are no different. Bible book authors were often motivated to write because they wanted to challenge or correct those who had written before them. As Helms explains, "The Bible is a war-zone, and its authors are its combatants.
Alright, so far I see no facts and a lot of rambling. The guy is obviously trying to draw in atheists as readers, which is a good marketing scheme, but for a Christian like me, we just want to see where his facts are.

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Paul said of Peter, 'I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong (Gal. 2:11).'" Helms notes that Jeremiah condemned the entire religious establishment of his time--the very same people that other Bible authors held in highest esteem: "prophets and priests are frauds, every one of them" (Jer. 8:10).
Eureka! but I don't find this convincing. See if you read the whole chapter, which the guy did not include for obvious reasons, you will see why Paul said that:

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Originally Posted by Gal. 2
Paul Accepted by the Apostles
1Fourteen years later I went up again to Jerusalem, this time with Barnabas. I took Titus along also. 2I went in response to a revelation and set before them the gospel that I preach among the Gentiles. But I did this privately to those who seemed to be leaders, for fear that I was running or had run my race in vain. 3Yet not even Titus, who was with me, was compelled to be circumcised, even though he was a Greek. 4This matter arose because some false brothers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves. 5We did not give in to them for a moment, so that the truth of the gospel might remain with you.

6As for those who seemed to be important—whatever they were makes no difference to me; God does not judge by external appearance—those men added nothing to my message. 7On the contrary, they saw that I had been entrusted with the task of preaching the gospel to the Gentiles,[a] just as Peter had been to the Jews.[b] 8For God, who was at work in the ministry of Peter as an apostle to the Jews, was also at work in my ministry as an apostle to the Gentiles. 9James, Peter[c] and John, those reputed to be pillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship when they recognized the grace given to me. They agreed that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the Jews. 10All they asked was that we should continue to remember the poor, the very thing I was eager to do.
Paul Opposes Peter
11When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong. 12Before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. 13The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray.

14When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter in front of them all, "You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?

15"We who are Jews by birth and not 'Gentile sinners' 16know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.

17"If, while we seek to be justified in Christ, it becomes evident that we ourselves are sinners, does that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! 18If I rebuild what I destroyed, I prove that I am a lawbreaker. 19For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. 20I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!"[d]
See, Paul was catching Peter on his hypocrisy AT THAT MOMENT. In other words, he wasn't saying everything Peter ever said was wrong, he was saying that Peter should act like a Christian and stop telling other people to when he wasn't.

Now for the Jeremiah one the guy is using the exact same tactic. He leaves out what matters and only brings out the stuff he wants you to read. Read Jeremiah 8:
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