Originally Posted by The Batlord

Sigh. Alright let's try to get through to you centrists one more time.

If liberals in America are apathetic and have no drive it's because there is no liberal project or movement their politicians are behind. There were ideas of reform and whatnot back in the days of the early progressives in the early 1900s but there's a reason they largely got behind eugenics. They were wealthy folk who weren't actual leftists who needed a reason why poverty and bad things existed and they settled on a reason that didn't deal with wealth inequality that might call into question their own positions in society.

Eventually you had FDR and the New Deal but that wasn't really the grand step forward it's remembered as so much as it was a way to preserve capitalism and forestall socialism and/or fascism, and liberals ever since have held this up as a high point in egalitarianism even though it was simply a kinder and gentler form of capitalist caretaking. To this day this is all liberalism in America is which is why they have no vision and no drive, because anything more would require actual socialism which has always been a project they are at odds with no matter what they tell themselves.

Conservatives on the other hand stand for the old hierarchies of the wealthy, white supremacist, settler colonial project and everything they've ever done and still do is in service to that. The New Deal provided grievances to the wealthy, civil rights provided grievances to white supremacy, and fundamentalist Protestantism has provided a glue to keep their coalitions on point and on message to this day. And they are not apathetic. They have a vision, energy, and coordination that the liberals will never have because they can not commit to the self interest of the right or the egalitarianism of the left.

Originally Posted by Pet_Sounds

But looking for quality interaction on MB is like trying to stay hydrated by drinking salt water.