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Originally Posted by Frownland
descriptive=/=prescriptive
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Meaningless.
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Originally Posted by Frownland
And the chemicals in your brain are your brain unless you think that the mind and the body are distinct.
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Then you're agreeing with me that "choice" is a poetic description of reaction to stimuli.
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Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre
Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it's magic. Free will would be the ability to choose a desired outcome. That would depend on the cause and effect relationship of the universe because there would be no meaning to choices if they had no affect. Just because it's influenced doesn't mean they aren't still YOUR will at the end of the day. It's literally what separates you from a rock that has no choice in how it reacts to something. It has no desired outcome. That would be why free will isn't an absolute like you guys argue it as, and it would be a spectrum depending on your ability to comprehend how things influence you and how you can influence other things. Of course you're not completely free and you'll always be limited by varying factors.
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Yeah you're literally describing a flowery poetic description of just not having a gun to your head when making decisions. What you're describing still relies on scientific equations deciding your responses. You're just desperate for a more magical reality where you aren't a biological robot.
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Even going with the neurological thing, that wouldn't disprove free will. It only proves that how you process influencing events to determine what choice you want to make would be dependent on the cause & effect relationship of the world.
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Yeah that's not free will unless free will is a poetic flourish that has no real world meaning. You keep describing exactly what I'm talking about but insist on interpreting it in a poetic way that has no real world meaning because it would make you feel bad.