Ah... back from a nice day at work... let's see if that thread's still kicking around...
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Originally Posted by JGuy Grungeman
Then don't you think it's possible that they were rejecting God's ways? Or at least worshipping him in their own ways instead of the right way? Everyone is human. I think God lifted his protection, and saved them when they cried for help. I mean, it took the Israelites decades to cry out to the lord for help after first being enslaved by the Egyptians, and he sent Moses to save them. If that's the case, it only took the Jews around five years. The cycle goes like this, and is a common theme in the Bible. People rejects God's ways/worship in pagan or incorrect ways. God lifts his protection. The devil comes right in and causes a great pain. People cry for God again. God protects and saves them. And then the cycle continues because mankind is so changeable. I'm no holocaust expert, but I wouldn't doubt that's the case. Even I have different beliefs from some Jewish customs. Not saying the Jews are total sinners, but any religion can be changed. Heck, people leave and join churches because of great changes that happen.
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Holy-- did you really say that? Does the same reasoning apply to the scores of other mass genocides committed throughout the ages? Starving and diseased infants in the third world? The casts of Joe Don Baker movies? Are you really making the sweeping generalization that the immeasurable suffering of these millions and millions of individuals of all races, colors, political affiliations, and stages of infancy were mercilessly slaughtered by (or "hands-offed" by) your benevolent invisible friend in the sky? If that's the case he is the most monstrous creature ever to walk on water.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordwyr
Free will. He could stop whatever whenever however, but that doesn't mean He does. To deny us our free will is to turn us into puppets. He doesn't want puppets.
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That's right. He prefers groveling worshipers who do exactly what he wants or else they'll burn eternally. God sounds like a drunken abusive spouse with a torture fetish.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadChannel
I've read this, it's a good one.
Are you familiar with Bakunin's God and the State? You might not agree with the state part, but imo he makes a pretty compelling argument as to why the idea that god is necessary for human dignity is bunk. He actually argues the opposite: that if God exists he is everything, and humanity is necessariy nothing.
It's a good read, and one that has been unfortunately basically left out of the current atheist cannon because of its association with anarchism.
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Adding it to my list. And I love me some anarchism. Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chula Vista
One of my favorite quotes. Pass this one along to a hard core Christian and then sit back and watch their head start spinning.
Hey, ISB, did you ever get around to reading that Karen Armstrong book I told you about?
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Dude knew his stuff. To this day I've never come across a satisfactory rebuttal to this elegantly simple question.
I haven't - ANOTHER for my reading list!
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I simply ask what is more reasonable/plausible - the extraordinary claim that Jebus is god's only begotten son, and that the Bible is the divine inspired word of god, (or crazier still - a guide for moral compass)... or that this defining text overwhelmingly composed of contradictory statements and horrors of a vengeful, vindictive god is just the most recent in a long line of well-documented and nearly-identical fairy tales written to keep the masses in check?
Sure - let's take it as read that Jesus really existed. Let's go a step further and say that he was god made flesh, and that he really appeared and performed magic tricks like all the other saviors before him, conveniently to a bunch of desert-dwellers who had little to no evidentiary documentation. Let's say that all of the other alarmingly similar stories mankind has told throughout the ages, each based on astrological circumstances which marked key events like seasonal change, etc and which correlate EXACTLY with each of these supernatural fairy tales, Jesus included - let's call all of that part of God's bizarre and needlessly complicated plan. Let's write off his waste of 99.9 percent of all species and civilizations which came and went for 98% of our existence and just say God is sh*t at math. And let's even call the Bible the divine inspired (though entirely contradictory) word of the big guy. All that rape and slavery and misogyny and anti-homosexuality and "kill your son Abraham-- HAHA Just kidding!!" ... all that stuff.
So we'll call him real. He's up there, sitting on a cloud, mysteriously revealing himself exclusively to individuals of questionable mental health and appearing in various pieces of cheese and toast.
Given the innumerable atrocities he's committed directly and indirectly and the demonstrably sh*tty job he's done creating a universe... why the smeg would we worship the jackass? If the dude is real, then given his track record we mortals seriously should band together and come up with a way to off the guy. (Check out Asimov's short stories
The Last Question and
The Last Answer for a great example of this playing out.)
Peace and Love.