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William_the_Bloody · 01-15-2016, 11:10 PM

Human Nature Part 2: Babies.

Babies are the ultimate blank slate, so naturally analyzing their behavior for signs of altruism, should give us some insight into human nature, here is what I found.

The results are mixed:

There were a few studies that seem to back Freud's age old theory on the human id, in that although babies possess a moral virtue of right and wrong, empathy and compassion, they are ultimately self centered breaking the world into an us and them camp.

(Psychology Professor) We're born with this extraordinary moral sense. A sense of right and wrong just comes naturally to humans and shows up in the youngest babies we can study. But this morality is limited. I think tragically limited. So we are morally attuned to those around us, to our kin, to our friends, to those we interact with, and we are utterly cold-blooded toward strangers. To some extent I think babies are natural-born bigots. They are strongly attuned to break the world into Us versus Them and have no moral feelings at all toward the Them

Are babies moral beings? Researcher explores the nature of tot-sized good and evil | CTV News

There have been however numerous studies that have attempted to show that babies have innate sense of good, through experiments with puppet show.

Ingenious experiments carried out at Yale University in the US used these measures to look at babies' minds. Their results suggest that even the youngest humans have a sense of right and wrong, and, furthermore, an instinct to prefer good over evil.After the "puppet" show "shapes", infants were given the choice of reaching for either the helping or the hindering shape, and it turned out they were much more likely to reach for the helper

If the climber moved towards the hinderer the infants looked significantly longer than if the climber moved towards the helper. This makes sense if the infants were surprised when the climber approached the hinderer. Moving towards the helper shape would be the happy ending, and obviously it was what the infant expected. If the climber moved towards the hinderer it was a surprise.

BBC - Future - Are we naturally good or bad?

There have been a few of these test studies that have concluded that babies have innate sense of moral goodness, but they have come under scrutiny.

An experiment five years ago suggested that babies are equipped with an innate moral compass, which drives them to choose good individuals over the bad in a wooden puppet show. But new research casts doubt on those findings, demonstrating that a baby's apparent preference for what's right might just reflect a fondness for bouncy things

but as the same article points out, the other scientists are pushing back

Even if flaws did exist in their study, Hamlin and her colleagues point to various independent studies, one of which uses a similar setup without the "bouncing" of the climber, that support the "babies have a moral compass" theory. The researchers go on to note they have replicated their findings, that infants prefer prosocial others, in a range of social scenarios that don't include climbing, colliding or bouncing. Hamlin's other studies have shown babies are good judges of character

After coming across a few articles casting doubts on the findings, there seems to be a debate raging right now on the validity of these experiments to be able to separate any environmental or human influence from their conclusions. So it appears this will not be resolved into sometime into the distant future.

Nevertheless, there were some studies showing that babies to have an inborn sense of altruism

When infants 18 months old see an unrelated adult whose hands are full and who needs assistance opening a door or picking up a dropped clothespin, they will immediately help, Michael Tomasello writes in “Why We Cooperate,” a book published in October. Dr. Tomasello, a developmental psychologist, is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Leipzig, Germany

The helping behavior seems to be innate because it appears so early and before many parents start teaching children the rules of polite behavior.

It does however still seems difficult to be able to separate any environmental influences in these studies.

“It’s probably safe to assume that they haven’t been explicitly and directly taught to do this,” said Elizabeth Spelke, a developmental psychologist at Harvard. “On the other hand, they’ve had lots of opportunities to experience acts of helping by others. I think the jury is out on the innateness question.”

Conclusion:

Upon researching my first two topics , I'm coming to the conclusion that Frownland is probably right in that I won't get a definite answer on human nature.

What I am however noticing so far, is that the general outlook on human nature appears to be much more promising than what was previously thought.

It may be just a product of out time, in that the western world is largely dominated by a liberal media that reports on what it want to hear, but it would appear that we have at least moved on from that dark period in time in history, from say the late 19th century to the 1960's, that viewed human nature as innately self centered.

Here's some of the links:

BBC - Future - Are we naturally good or bad?

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/scienc...443013/?no-ist

Are babies moral beings? Researcher explores the nature of tot-sized good and evil | CTV News

Babies: Born to be Good? - The Nature of Things: Science, Wildlife and Technology - CBC-TV

Do Babies Have a Moral Compass? Debate Heats Up

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/01/sc...uman.html?_r=0

Are Babies Born Selfish? - Parents.com

Children are NOT born nice, researchers claim | Daily Mail Online

Are Babies Born Selfish? - Parents.com

Babies are born good 'but habits of modern life makes them selfish' | Daily Mail Online

Babies are born good 'but habits of modern life makes them selfish' | Daily Mail Online

'Negative Parenting' Starts Aggressive Personalities Early | Childhood Aggression, Parenting Styles & Early Infancy

Scientists Discover Through Studying Toddlers That Humans Are Inherently Altruistic, Not Selfish

at Scientists Discover Through Studying Toddlers That Humans Are Inherently Altruistic, Not Selfish

01-15-2016, 11:10 PM	#21 (permalink)
William_the_Bloody Music Addict Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Sunnydale Cemetary Posts: 2,093	Human Nature Part 2: Babies. Babies are the ultimate blank slate, so naturally analyzing their behavior for signs of altruism, should give us some insight into human nature, here is what I found. The results are mixed: There were a few studies that seem to back Freud's age old theory on the human id, in that although babies possess a moral virtue of right and wrong, empathy and compassion, they are ultimately self centered breaking the world into an us and them camp. (Psychology Professor) We're born with this extraordinary moral sense. A sense of right and wrong just comes naturally to humans and shows up in the youngest babies we can study. But this morality is limited. I think tragically limited. So we are morally attuned to those around us, to our kin, to our friends, to those we interact with, and we are utterly cold-blooded toward strangers. To some extent I think babies are natural-born bigots. They are strongly attuned to break the world into Us versus Them and have no moral feelings at all toward the Them Are babies moral beings? Researcher explores the nature of tot-sized good and evil \| CTV News There have been however numerous studies that have attempted to show that babies have innate sense of good, through experiments with puppet show. Ingenious experiments carried out at Yale University in the US used these measures to look at babies' minds. Their results suggest that even the youngest humans have a sense of right and wrong, and, furthermore, an instinct to prefer good over evil.After the "puppet" show "shapes", infants were given the choice of reaching for either the helping or the hindering shape, and it turned out they were much more likely to reach for the helper If the climber moved towards the hinderer the infants looked significantly longer than if the climber moved towards the helper. This makes sense if the infants were surprised when the climber approached the hinderer. Moving towards the helper shape would be the happy ending, and obviously it was what the infant expected. If the climber moved towards the hinderer it was a surprise. BBC - Future - Are we naturally good or bad? There have been a few of these test studies that have concluded that babies have innate sense of moral goodness, but they have come under scrutiny. An experiment five years ago suggested that babies are equipped with an innate moral compass, which drives them to choose good individuals over the bad in a wooden puppet show. But new research casts doubt on those findings, demonstrating that a baby's apparent preference for what's right might just reflect a fondness for bouncy things but as the same article points out, the other scientists are pushing back Even if flaws did exist in their study, Hamlin and her colleagues point to various independent studies, one of which uses a similar setup without the "bouncing" of the climber, that support the "babies have a moral compass" theory. The researchers go on to note they have replicated their findings, that infants prefer prosocial others, in a range of social scenarios that don't include climbing, colliding or bouncing. Hamlin's other studies have shown babies are good judges of character After coming across a few articles casting doubts on the findings, there seems to be a debate raging right now on the validity of these experiments to be able to separate any environmental or human influence from their conclusions. So it appears this will not be resolved into sometime into the distant future. Nevertheless, there were some studies showing that babies to have an inborn sense of altruism When infants 18 months old see an unrelated adult whose hands are full and who needs assistance opening a door or picking up a dropped clothespin, they will immediately help, Michael Tomasello writes in “Why We Cooperate,” a book published in October. Dr. Tomasello, a developmental psychologist, is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Leipzig, Germany The helping behavior seems to be innate because it appears so early and before many parents start teaching children the rules of polite behavior. It does however still seems difficult to be able to separate any environmental influences in these studies. “It’s probably safe to assume that they haven’t been explicitly and directly taught to do this,” said Elizabeth Spelke, a developmental psychologist at Harvard. “On the other hand, they’ve had lots of opportunities to experience acts of helping by others. I think the jury is out on the innateness question.” Conclusion: Upon researching my first two topics , I'm coming to the conclusion that Frownland is probably right in that I won't get a definite answer on human nature. What I am however noticing so far, is that the general outlook on human nature appears to be much more promising than what was previously thought. It may be just a product of out time, in that the western world is largely dominated by a liberal media that reports on what it want to hear, but it would appear that we have at least moved on from that dark period in time in history, from say the late 19th century to the 1960's, that viewed human nature as innately self centered. Here's some of the links: BBC - Future - Are we naturally good or bad? http://www.smithsonianmag.com/scienc...443013/?no-ist Are babies moral beings? Researcher explores the nature of tot-sized good and evil \| CTV News Babies: Born to be Good? - The Nature of Things: Science, Wildlife and Technology - CBC-TV Do Babies Have a Moral Compass? Debate Heats Up http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/01/sc...uman.html?_r=0 Are Babies Born Selfish? - Parents.com Children are NOT born nice, researchers claim \| Daily Mail Online Are Babies Born Selfish? - Parents.com Babies are born good 'but habits of modern life makes them selfish' \| Daily Mail Online Babies are born good 'but habits of modern life makes them selfish' \| Daily Mail Online 'Negative Parenting' Starts Aggressive Personalities Early \| Childhood Aggression, Parenting Styles & Early Infancy Scientists Discover Through Studying Toddlers That Humans Are Inherently Altruistic, Not Selfish at Scientists Discover Through Studying Toddlers That Humans Are Inherently Altruistic, Not Selfish