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Originally Posted by Chula Vista
Seriously, that's just blah blah blah blabber trying to rationalize things that are beyond rationalization. I'm not buying it. If you are that's cool.
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If you think that it's blather then you're either being stubborn or you're just incapable of understanding my point. I don't think it's the latter, since I've pointed out the flaw in your logic pretty simply.
I'll say it again, in hopes that you'll actually read what I'm saying and not just ignore it because it conflicts with the world view that you're comfortable with: just because you can't understand something, doesn't mean that it isn't based in logic. What's so hard about that? I feel like I'm talking to a wall.
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Watched the 2008 version of The Day the Earth stood Still recently and although it's a ****ty movie (still love Jennifer Connely to death) the message was pretty sound and pretty poignant to this discussion.
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If I've seen that then I don't remember it, but I generally don't derive my logical arguments from Hollywood movies.
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We are the problem. We are uncontrollable. We defy all logic and reason. We're seriously ****ed up.
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Then free will still doesn't exist. If you conducted an experiment where you started an infinite number of identical "universes", all with the same people, the same past, the same knowledge, the same everything, then for free will to exist, at least one of those experiments would have to somehow deviate from the others, or else existence is predetermined.
In order for that one universe to deviate, then it has to somehow break at least one natural law that all of the rest follow. And in order for that to happen, then it has to happen randomly (magically), or else it would still be following a natural law. If reality can be affected by randomness, then there is still no free will, because at any time, you might act in a way that you never would otherwise, for no reason.
Which would make your stance supporting the death penalty even more illogical. You can't blame someone if it's possible that they acted randomly, since they weren't in control of their actions. If you want to say that that woman microwaved her baby because she was crazy, and not just because the universe is random, then you're accepting that the universe does act according to natural laws.
Either way, free will is hokum.