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Originally Posted by Josef K
See, I kind of saw this coming, hence
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yea... you know, anticipating my response and responding for me isn't as good an idea as you might think. kind of makes the conversation pointless.
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But fine, I'll bite, although this post is going to be at least a little bit (and probably a lot) tautological. There are a few reasons (and you'll notice everything here is prefaced with "I believe" - you should continue to think however you want, and I'm unlikely to change your mind, much less get you to change your "I'm cynical and apathetic" schtick).
I'm a fairly idealistic person, which you may have gathered from my posts here and elsewhere. I believe in democracy and I believe that in a democracy, voters have actual power to solve injustices and help shape good policy. I think it's a person's duty as a democratic citizen to do what they can to help others.
That said, I don't believe that democracy works by having everyone vote in their own interest, and that's for two reasons. First is the issue of tyranny of the majority - we should avoid voting for things which hurt people, and we shouldn't rationalize voting for those things with "Oh well those people can vote against it", because we, as democratic citizens, have responsibilities to other people and peoples. The second reason is that we don't live in a "true" democracy. I don't mean that in the ******* "Oh we live in a republic not a democracy don't you feel stupid now," way, I mean that lots of groups of people are, systematically and not, denied access to the franchise even when they officially have voting rights. So because oppressed groups of people are voiceless in many cases, we need to consider them especially when voting.
I also believe, essentially (although not entirely), in Rawls's veil of ignorance. I think that we should try hard to create an equitable society and try hard to put protections in place for those who are born (or become at some point in their life) worse off than most so they're still able to lead fulfilling, free lives.
Finally, I guess it makes me feel better to think that voting can change things - I don't know that, and this is very specific to me personally, my life has a ton of meaning if I can't in some important way make the world a better place. And I know that voting doesn't solve everything, or maybe almost anything - there's a study from Martin Gilens and Ben Page that talks about how the median American has no influence over government policy - but I also have to believe that those conclusions are an oversimplification, that if the other guy had been elected then things would be worse, because I've seen what kinds of things Republicans do and I've seen what kinds of things Democrats do, and I know that they're different. And I don't think that believing voting is powerful precludes me from pursuing systemic change, and I don't think that I'm perversely increasing oppression by participating in "the system", and I don't think I could live with myself if we went to war with Iran, or if worker protections got rolled back by the Supreme Court, or if we continued on with decades of racist housing policy, and it could've been prevented if I'd done something different. And I want to do more than just vote, but if doing more isn't available to me, I still will do whatever I can to create a better society.
(jwb: "why?")
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there are a few things to address here
first, my basic question was why shouldn't i be addressing my own interests when i vote. it seems like that is a pretty straight forward approach to democracy to me... even if we don't have a 'pure democracy'... at the end of the day, the whole point of having the vote distributed throughout the populace vs decided by a few good men is to ensure that these interests are represented. so it seems flat out weird to me to hear you say my interests aren't what i should be considering... instead every individual is supposed to engineer the ideal society in their own head and vote along those lines? so we're falling back on the collective wisdom of the masses? but that's not a tyranny of the majority right...
but i don't take issue with the idea that "you should care about other people" etc etc. i do care. i throw a dollar in the salvation army guy's bucket. i don't take the time to vote cause i really don't see it as being as productive as you do. just to sort of passively stave off the elite a little bit... and meanwhile i hear poor people deluded into thinking obama is making them poor on a daily basis. nah, really i feel like sometimes it takes a fire to clear the forest. let them take the reigns, i say. would be interesting at least.
but i have to admit i do like your intellect and your ideals. i wish more people were like you. but i think robots will overthrow us before that happens, or we'll just global warming ourselves out of existence.