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Originally Posted by William_the_Bloody
Your referring to one philosophy of punk, punk is not defined by one political ideology, there is left wing punk, there is right wing punk, there is unbiased and non political punk. The New York hardcore scene had very different social values than California punk scene.
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I sampled different scenes all over the country because I was in the service at the time and I'd have to say punk is predominantly left wing if not extreme left wing. Then the apolitical punks would come next with right wing bringing up the rear--I never met any, personally.
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I never said punk or metal was racist, but I implied that particularly during the 80's, bigotry in the punk & metal scene were commonplace amongst many fans, if not some of the bands themselves, it wasn't the paradise of diversity many people like to romanticize it as.
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Well, I was there in the 80s and I moshed from Michigan to Massachusetts to New York to Philly to Virginia to Chicago to Milwaukee to St. Louis to Cincinnati to Florida. I can't say I saw any real bigotry. I'm not sure what you mean.
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The fact remains that punk and metal were and still are primarily white subculture musical genres.
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Once again, I've met a lot of black punks. And I've met a lot of black punk musicians. True, it's predominantly white but there are or at least were a significant number of black punks. Frankly, I saw them everywhere I went and corresponded with one who lived in California because I was contributing to a zine he was running. If we are to believe him, he took more flak from other blacks for being punk than he did from whites. Really, whites didn't care because blacks at the punk venues was not at all uncommon. I saw black guys and girls at punk clubs in every city I visited.
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Bad Brains was not the first hardcore band, the first official hardcore release is usually cited as D.O.A.'s hardcore 81. They toured the east coast and had an impact on bands like Minor Threat.
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Again, I have a DVD called "American Hardcore." It has no narrator, it's just the hardcore bands and promoters and what not talking and they say Bad Brains was the first. Ian Mackaye, if I remember correctly, acknowledges Bad Brains as the first hardcore band. He talks about them quite a bit at any rate. You can take it up with these guys. There were there, they were the movers and shakers. I'll take their word for it.
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One black band amongst a sea of white bands does not make a diverse musical scene regardless of anti racist factions in punk.
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There was more than one. I mention them specifically because they are said to be the first. Many of the bands had black and white members. The most famous one I can think of is the Dead Kennedys. Their drummer, Darren Henley, is black. He had fans independent of the DKs.
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Yes of course there is, rap in the late 80's was the new punk, but it was punk for those people who were not white
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No, it was rap. There were plenty of black punks in the 80s--believe me.
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and continues to be the musical choice for many non white migrants. If...I believe you did at some point...state that rap sucks, you are essentially telling a whole generation of African Americans that there culture is garbage.
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A lot of their culture IS garbage. The out-of-wedlock birthrate is downright ridiculous--upwards of 70% from I am given to understand. The crime rate in black communities still remains the highest in the nation. 500,000 people have left Detroit in an last few years because the crime rate is among the highest in the country. The small businesses have left because they are tired of getting robbed. And a lot of that has to do with the affects of rap on the minds of young black men.