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GuD · 10-15-2013, 08:21 PM

I'm sorry, did I miss a memo? Grammys actually matter and aren't just a big media hype? Yes, rap started off underground but made it big. Some artists wanted to make it big and did, good for them. Some saw that as a corruption of the craft and decided to float on the underground waves and continue to do that today. Immortal Technique is pretty big now but is more or less who he was from the beginning. Cannibal Ox aren't very prolific but have released numerous great albums in side projects (as did producer El-P) despite the fact that they don't receive a lot of press. Some rappers are in it for the money, some aren't. The same goes for punk bands of the 70s and now. Did you listen to the lyrics for the Cannibal Ox song? Does it sound like they're trying to make millions of dollars to you? They expressed a lot about what it's like to live in poverty, to be disadvantaged and discriminated against, and did so in a very creative way. They're from Harlem, a city that's been plagued with crime since the 50s. Maybe you missed that, you strike me as the type who never really had to suffer through a lot and maybe that's why.

Dadaists were the first to protest the government for going to war? I'm not a history buff but I can't believe that statement without proof. I can see what you mean in that dada influenced the groundwork for maybe even a lot of punk, but the Ramones and likeminded bands? I just don't see the connection and you haven't explicitly proved it. The Ramones are one of my favorite bands, I've seen every documentary about them I've ever been aware of, countless interviews on youtube, read the books. I can't remember them once acknowledging dada (or the Velvet Underground), and the same can be said for a lot of other bands I've informed myself of. Obviously that doesn't explicitly prove that they weren't influenced by dada, but it doesn't bode well for what I interpret your claim to be that it was vital to punk bands everywhere in the 70s and 40 years later has been lossed along the way. There are plenty of bands who protest the government and other issues in the world today. Again, did you not watch the video? Dillinger Four might not take themselves very seriously but they have a lot to say and have written some of the best punk songs of the last 15 years. This Bike is a Pipe Bomb, Johnny Hobo, La Dispute, countless others have a lot to say to. Are you saying they're just singing songs about oppression and corruption for the **** of it? I honestly don't know because you haven't said a word about any new punk bands besides Green Day who were never exclusively political motivated in the first place. They were a bunch of stoners from the slums of Oakland who liked The Jam.

Nihilism was obviously a part of a lot of punk bands' attitudes. It's obviously a part of a lot of other completely categorically different bands' attitudes. A lot of people may have nihilistic or existentialist feelings without even being aware of those philosophies in any way. You don't have to know who Camus is to wonder if suicide is better or worse than a cup of coffee. Artists and philosophers are people who have those thoughts and create something with them, some of those creations get sucked up into academia or pop culture, either way the thoughts and feelings that inspired them to create don't exclusively belong to them and the fact that they may or may not have been the first to create with those thoughts and feelings in mind doesn't mean that they're the ones who invented them. It's not a case of chicken or egg.

I think what's going on here is you're trying to overintellectualize and overanalyze a genre of music that, for the most part, is by and for the everyman. I think punk has more in common with the blues than it does dada. The philosophy isn't dead, it's far from dead, the art that ties into it has just changed. The fact that people here are arguing with you and are out their playing in bands and doing what they can to make a difference in the world is all the proof you need. Change is a gradual process, it doesn't happen overnight.

10-15-2013, 08:21 PM	#140 (permalink)
GuD Dude... What? Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 1,322	I'm sorry, did I miss a memo? Grammys actually matter and aren't just a big media hype? Yes, rap started off underground but made it big. Some artists wanted to make it big and did, good for them. Some saw that as a corruption of the craft and decided to float on the underground waves and continue to do that today. Immortal Technique is pretty big now but is more or less who he was from the beginning. Cannibal Ox aren't very prolific but have released numerous great albums in side projects (as did producer El-P) despite the fact that they don't receive a lot of press. Some rappers are in it for the money, some aren't. The same goes for punk bands of the 70s and now. Did you listen to the lyrics for the Cannibal Ox song? Does it sound like they're trying to make millions of dollars to you? They expressed a lot about what it's like to live in poverty, to be disadvantaged and discriminated against, and did so in a very creative way. They're from Harlem, a city that's been plagued with crime since the 50s. Maybe you missed that, you strike me as the type who never really had to suffer through a lot and maybe that's why. Dadaists were the first to protest the government for going to war? I'm not a history buff but I can't believe that statement without proof. I can see what you mean in that dada influenced the groundwork for maybe even a lot of punk, but the Ramones and likeminded bands? I just don't see the connection and you haven't explicitly proved it. The Ramones are one of my favorite bands, I've seen every documentary about them I've ever been aware of, countless interviews on youtube, read the books. I can't remember them once acknowledging dada (or the Velvet Underground), and the same can be said for a lot of other bands I've informed myself of. Obviously that doesn't explicitly prove that they weren't influenced by dada, but it doesn't bode well for what I interpret your claim to be that it was vital to punk bands everywhere in the 70s and 40 years later has been lossed along the way. There are plenty of bands who protest the government and other issues in the world today. Again, did you not watch the video? Dillinger Four might not take themselves very seriously but they have a lot to say and have written some of the best punk songs of the last 15 years. This Bike is a Pipe Bomb, Johnny Hobo, La Dispute, countless others have a lot to say to. Are you saying they're just singing songs about oppression and corruption for the **** of it? I honestly don't know because you haven't said a word about any new punk bands besides Green Day who were never exclusively political motivated in the first place. They were a bunch of stoners from the slums of Oakland who liked The Jam. Nihilism was obviously a part of a lot of punk bands' attitudes. It's obviously a part of a lot of other completely categorically different bands' attitudes. A lot of people may have nihilistic or existentialist feelings without even being aware of those philosophies in any way. You don't have to know who Camus is to wonder if suicide is better or worse than a cup of coffee. Artists and philosophers are people who have those thoughts and create something with them, some of those creations get sucked up into academia or pop culture, either way the thoughts and feelings that inspired them to create don't exclusively belong to them and the fact that they may or may not have been the first to create with those thoughts and feelings in mind doesn't mean that they're the ones who invented them. It's not a case of chicken or egg. I think what's going on here is you're trying to overintellectualize and overanalyze a genre of music that, for the most part, is by and for the everyman. I think punk has more in common with the blues than it does dada. The philosophy isn't dead, it's far from dead, the art that ties into it has just changed. The fact that people here are arguing with you and are out their playing in bands and doing what they can to make a difference in the world is all the proof you need. Change is a gradual process, it doesn't happen overnight. __________________ I spit bullets in my feet Every time I speak So I write instead And still people want me dead ~msc Last edited by GuD; 10-15-2013 at 08:49 PM.