Soulflower

Did you read my last post or did you choose to ignore it? Tupac and Biggie were at the top of their games when they were murdered which affected the dynamic of the rap industry as a whole. Jay Z benefited from their deaths. If Biggie and Pac were alive there is no doubt in my mind they wouldnt allow Jay Z to call himself the best rapper alive. Jay released Reasonable Doubt the same year as 2pac's 7 Day Theory which is more critically acclaim, more successful and overall was a much stronger album. The funny thing is that is suppose to be Jays best work but the truth is there are alot of albums from that era that are way better.







For one thing, gangsta rap is still very prevalent in rap music today so this whole "slighting NWA's influence" is absurd.

Also, Jay Z success is largely related to things that has nothing to do with music such investing in owning clothing lines, NBA teams,etc. He is a very smart businessman but I dont see how this has anything to do with hip hop or music. His ability to adapt has nothing to do with his abilities or skills and more so to do with the producers and beat makers that he had around him. And having a million dollar marketing and backing helped as well. He latches on to the hottest rappers/artists at the moment to stay relevant like he did with Kanye West and like he is currently doing with Justin Timberlake.

He doesnt need the money, I just wish he hang it up because his music is the same generic crap.

But to imply that he has evolved "talent/material" wise is false. He is making the same gimmicky music that he made in the late 90s. His beats are just more in tune with the times.



I dont really like to lump BIG/Pac together because they were different rappers. Pac before he died showed that he cared about more social issues and wanted to gear his music in a different direction which I think would have continued after they peaked. Overall, Pac had more political music than BIG but that was not what BIG was trying to market.



That is true to an extent but to insist that this was the only reason why they were popular is absurd. They both had the biggest album sales and number ones during there time for their music. Tupac was also acting in top block buster movies. Yea there beef helped them stay in the headlines a little but dont be silly.


Every artist has had their peaks. Even the biggest of stars like Beatles, Elvis, MJ etc but just because you peak doesnt necessarily make you unreleavent or less succesful. There influence is very clear in todays music industry.

I dont think 2pac would even want to be as "mainstream" as he was during the 90s. 2pac probably would do more acting, do more hip hop activism, community outreack work and focus more on underground hip hop since that was something he became more interested in before he died. So if he is not mainstream, he would not necessarily have to change anything to get played on the radio. Which is why Nas is content with where he is. Its not about the hits/fame for him like it is for Jay Z.

Out of the two, I could see Biggie doing what Jay Z does but with much better music overall.



Like I said its hard to say whether or not they would have even wanted to be mainstream. The way Pac was going before he died I dont think he cared about the hits and cared more about justice and political issues.

I disagree with this.


For one thing, 2pac never said things like "I am thoughtprovoking" like Jay Z does. Pac never tried to front about what he was. Pac said "Yea I know I act thuggish", "I smoked crack with my mother when I was young", "I am not perfect" etc BUT at the same time he discussed issues that affected people as well as affected him. He sincerely cared about the world and social issues unlike Jay Z who comes off contrived, conceited and is more into his money and image

Pac did not just make social songs. He made social ALBUMS and these issues seemed to be things that he geniuely cared about BEYOND the studio because he would often discuss this issues in interviews, documentaries and with family/friends.

Jay Z on the other hand doesnt do these things and he has never made a album as political and artistic as the "7 day theory"

Most of the lines I hear Jay Z says is " I am the best rapper alive" " I have more money than you" " I am this and I am that" He hardly ever touches on wordly issues and mostly focuses on himself.

Which goes back to why 2pac was popular. Aside from the talent, he RELATED TO PEOPLE and was relatable. You cant relate to someone who is singing about how much richer they are then you LOL



Lauryn Hill just released one solo album "The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill" which is a classic. I dont see people insisting the album is less of a classic since that is the only solo album she released.

Once again you focus to much on quantity instead of the quality of the songs. Now Ive insisted since the very beginning that BIG was a gimmick rapper but he was a gimmick rapper with some good songs and some of those songs are actually classics. Regardless if he released two albums or not, the point is he has classics period. I wouldnt even place BIG in my top 10 but I am not going to sit up here and deny that he doesnt have classics. He died more than a decade ago and still has songs that play on the radio, clubs etc.





Your right.......... but it is a issue when the media is acclaiming you to be the best rapper alive and creative when in actual reality you steal most of your verses from other rappers.

Yes that is a individual problem.


DMX would fry Jay Z in a battle like country bacon.

Jay Z couldnt kill anybody in hip hop either. You have to make real hip hop first before you can kill anybody in it lol



He isnt.

I dont understand the point of your question


Jay Z and BIG are more similiar because they both were gimmick rappers.

Jay Z is still a gimmick rapper.

He does not make political rap music, period.



This conversation is not a comparision between Immortal Technique and Tupac though.

This conversation is between Jay Z and Tupac and out of the two rappers Tupac is superior. He is lyrically superior and has stronger albums.

(Not that it matters but) He also is more iconic and criticially acclaim.


Huh?

Tupac is an international icon and there are many rappers that cite him as an influence and his influence is evident even in todays rap scene. Blueprint is not as influential as the 7 day theory or Me Against the World. Outside of the catchy beats on Blueprint what is influential about the Blue Print???

What kind of arguement is this? It just sounds like you are a Jay Z stan and you feel he is better than everybody even rappers that are far more talented than him lol

The fact that you are aruging he is better than Nas, Rakim 2pac is embarrassing. LOL


Based on this post you obviously do not know what "political" means and you obviously dont listen to 2pac. Political does not necessarily have to pertain to the "government" specifically. It can also deal with injustice, racism, social issues which are all things that affect politics/government.

The example that you gave about Pac rapping about "the black man being held down" actually IS a political issue that is by in large affected by the hegemony of white privilege in this country that has affected minorities for centuries.


There are of course more rappers that were more political than 2pac but he arguably was more political than Jay Z and he seemed to care more about political issues than Jay Z.


You dont know what "political" means and I also insisted that Pac talked about things besides that. I brought that theme up because you are painting Jay Z to be more than what he is and you bizarrely insisted he was better than Nas and Rakim who are well known socially conscious rappers.

Jay Z has alot more filler than 2pac and his strongest albums are better than his entire catalogue.



This doesnt make sense.


If you are implying that Jay Z is the best and there are other rappers that are better than him how does that have nothing to do with this discussion? I just used them as examples.


They are more iconic in terms of "hip hop" and there contributions to the genre. They have more classic albums and material. They are far more lyrically talented songwriters and have more lyrically superior/creative/experimental/influential music than Jay Z.




No I just think your arguements are laugable and biased.



When did I say gangsta rap was important? I just simply insisted that its influence is clear in todays industry. When I speak of the "industry" I am speaking of the mainstream industry not undeground. Are you saying popular rappers like Lil Wayne, Rick Ross, etc dont have some elements gangsta rap music? I dont think its important either I just was trying to make a point.

If you dont want to go back and forth with me... fine but you dont have to be disrespectful just because you disagree because all it shows is that you can not intelligently support your arguement so you have to revert to being childish.