Icon vs Legend (subjective or objective terms?) Which one is more enduring?

**Frownland** · 11-24-2014, 03:27 PM

I'm just poking fun at you with the last Gaga comment, not angry in the slightest. You pretty much summed it up with famous=icon but (let's go once more) I think that it does go beyond that in that an icon is someone who stays in the public memory without being in the public eye.

You know come to think of it I think these are pretty pointless terms to begin with.

~~Soulflower~~ · 11-24-2014, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

I'm just poking fun at you with the last Gaga comment, not angry in the slightest. You pretty much summed it up with famous=icon but (let's go once more) I think that it does go beyond that in that an icon is someone who stays in the public memory without being in the public eye.

You know come to think of it I think these are pretty pointless terms to begin with.

Aw your so cute when your angry

But it is something that they have to that makes them stay in our memory. There has to be some cultural or groundbreaking association that comes apart of pop culture.

It is not just them being in the public eye alone.

Most of the acts that are popular now will just be popular in THIS moment but 50 years from now...probably not.

Decades later, The Beatles, MJ, and so forth are still Icons and still very relevant in today's music scene based on their influence and of course impact.

I don't see that with today's acts.

Ninetales · 11-24-2014, 03:47 PM

i'll remember carly rae jepsen in 20 years isn't that enough

**Frownland** · 11-24-2014, 03:48 PM

Why do you think I'm angry? Where is your evidence to back that up? All you're giving me is a vague depiction.

Really though, it's just as silly to assume that the artists won't be iconic in the future than to say that they will be. The Beatles were written off by many as a passing fad but they ended up being icons. Unless you wanna give me a ride in your time machine I think judging from today's events is the only way to determine icons. Kanye comes to mind.

~~Soulflower~~ · 11-24-2014, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

Why do you think I'm angry? Where is your evidence to back that up? All you're giving me is a vague depiction.

Really though, it's just as silly to assume that the artists won't be iconic in the future than to say that they will be. The Beatles were written off by many as a passing fad but they ended up being icons. Unless you wanna give me a ride in your time machine I think judging from today's events is the only way to determine icons. Kanye comes to mind.

Because its fun to mess with you LOL

And I have given a ton of detailed examples and reasoning....you still haven't though.

Why is it silly to assume when none of the current pop stars are Icons?

The Beatles were groundbreaking for their present time AND they also made a lasting impact.

You seem to think Icons only exist in the present tense but their impacts are groundbreaking and culturally significant not just for the present time.

What is Kanye's Icon album?

What is his significant cultural impact on music?

What do we associate with Kanye that is also apart of pop culture?

What makes Kanye an Icon?

You got some splaining to do boo, get to it.

**Frownland** · 11-24-2014, 04:26 PM

Well saying they won't be iconic in the future is silly because you do not know what the future holds. I've already explained my position and I don't know how to (or why I should) get more detailed than I have, sorry it doesn't do it for you.

These are your criteria for an icon, not mine but here goes anyway.
Kanye's significant albums: College Dropout, My Beautiful Dark Convoluted List of Adjectives, Yeezus.

Musical impact: making popular the use of soul samples as well as the gritty industrial techno hip hop sound of Yeezus.

Iconic moment: 'Imma let you finish'. Memeified, prominently used pop culture reference, even people who have never heard his music know Kanye's an arrogant *******.

Kanye's association outside of pop culture: ****ing what? What does that have to do with anything? What do we associate with Janet Jackson outside of pop culture? Doesn't it become pop culture once we associate the popular icon with it? So many questions, I guess you weren't detailed enough.

What makes him an icon: millions of die hard fan boys, popularity, significant place in the publics mind be it positive or negative, he is a god (his words not mine).

I'd like to note that the only thing I like about Kanye is the production on Yeezus so you're not getting a biased opinion from me.

~~Soulflower~~ · 11-24-2014, 05:09 PM

You said that what makes an Icon to you was a person that is famous and then you went on to say that its silly to imply that none of the pop stars out today will be Icons without no reasoning.

Yes you did need to explain.

You never really explained your criteria in detail which was all I simply asked.

Kanye's significant albums: College Dropout, My Beautiful Dark Convoluted List of Adjectives, Yeezus.

How are these albums Iconic and how have they made a significant impact on music?

Musical impact: making popular the use of soul samples as well as the gritty industrial techno hip hop sound of Yeezus.

Artists have been sampling music before he was born. That is not a groundbreaking significant contribution to music.

Iconic moment: 'Imma let you finish'. Memeified, prominently used pop culture reference, even people who have never heard his music know Kanye's an arrogant *******.

But is this something that is so groundbreaking that it will be remembered 50 years from now?

I don't think it made a cultural impact and I also don't see how that relates to music.

Janet will never have to release another album because her legacy is stamped. She has made iconic albums and has iconic moments that will always been remembered and viewed as an influence. She is still relevant today among st the current popular acts.

I think you are not understanding the questions.

You still have not really explained any significant contributions he has made or groundbreaking things he has done related to his music.

Sampling is not innovative and was done before him and might I add done better.

An example of an Iconic album is Janet Jackson's Rhythm Nation. That album broke cultural barriers with its social conscious message, themes, and creative music videos. It is a very influential album till this day all the way down to the look. There hasn't been a female pop star in the last 20 something years that has made an album as socially conscious sense. Madonna hasn't even made a political album as daring as RN.

**Frownland** · 11-24-2014, 05:16 PM

Oh well I tried. If you don't want to consider Kanye an iconic artist so be it. I'd just like to mention that making something more popular is not the same as inventing it but it's equally as important. But I pose this question to you again: what makes an iconic album?

My criteria is: famous, remaining in the public eye after prime=icon. Sorry if you're not getting that. You don't have to be groundbreaking to do so, just look at the Beatles, Elvis, and Michael Jackson. All were basically revamping old ideas without really doing anything inventive but they're still icons.

**Frownland** · 11-24-2014, 05:24 PM

Really though, every generation has its icons. Whether or not they hold up to the standards of icons from the past is really irrelevant. I highly doubt that twenty years into the future there aren't going to be playlists of "classics of the 2010s" and people saying that none of the artists of that day compare to Lady Gaga or Skrillex or whatever. I think you're letting your distaste for current mainstream artists cloud how you look at the situation. I don't like them either, but since icon is generally a position that needs to be filled, there's always going to be somebody assuming that role.

Mondo Bungle · 11-24-2014, 05:26 PM

Oh yeah, Skrillex is most definitely an icon

11-24-2014, 03:27 PM	#51 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	I'm just poking fun at you with the last Gaga comment, not angry in the slightest. You pretty much summed it up with famous=icon but (let's go once more) I think that it does go beyond that in that an icon is someone who stays in the public memory without being in the public eye. You know come to think of it I think these are pretty pointless terms to begin with. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

11-24-2014, 03:48 PM	#54 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	Why do you think I'm angry? Where is your evidence to back that up? All you're giving me is a vague depiction. Really though, it's just as silly to assume that the artists won't be iconic in the future than to say that they will be. The Beatles were written off by many as a passing fad but they ended up being icons. Unless you wanna give me a ride in your time machine I think judging from today's events is the only way to determine icons. Kanye comes to mind. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

11-24-2014, 04:26 PM	#56 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	Well saying they won't be iconic in the future is silly because you do not know what the future holds. I've already explained my position and I don't know how to (or why I should) get more detailed than I have, sorry it doesn't do it for you. These are your criteria for an icon, not mine but here goes anyway. Kanye's significant albums: College Dropout, My Beautiful Dark Convoluted List of Adjectives, Yeezus. Musical impact: making popular the use of soul samples as well as the gritty industrial techno hip hop sound of Yeezus. Iconic moment: 'Imma let you finish'. Memeified, prominently used pop culture reference, even people who have never heard his music know Kanye's an arrogant *****. Kanye's association outside of pop culture: *ing what? What does that have to do with anything? What do we associate with Janet Jackson outside of pop culture? Doesn't it become pop culture once we associate the popular icon with it? So many questions, I guess you weren't detailed enough. What makes him an icon: millions of die hard fan boys, popularity, significant place in the publics mind be it positive or negative, he is a god (his words not mine). I'd like to note that the only thing I like about Kanye is the production on Yeezus so you're not getting a biased opinion from me. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth.* d e a f b o x

11-24-2014, 05:16 PM	#58 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	Oh well I tried. If you don't want to consider Kanye an iconic artist so be it. I'd just like to mention that making something more popular is not the same as inventing it but it's equally as important. But I pose this question to you again: what makes an iconic album? My criteria is: famous, remaining in the public eye after prime=icon. Sorry if you're not getting that. You don't have to be groundbreaking to do so, just look at the Beatles, Elvis, and Michael Jackson. All were basically revamping old ideas without really doing anything inventive but they're still icons. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

11-24-2014, 05:24 PM	#59 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	Really though, every generation has its icons. Whether or not they hold up to the standards of icons from the past is really irrelevant. I highly doubt that twenty years into the future there aren't going to be playlists of "classics of the 2010s" and people saying that none of the artists of that day compare to Lady Gaga or Skrillex or whatever. I think you're letting your distaste for current mainstream artists cloud how you look at the situation. I don't like them either, but since icon is generally a position that needs to be filled, there's always going to be somebody assuming that role. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

11-24-2014, 03:47 PM	#53 (permalink)
Ninetales Music Addict Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: livin wild Posts: 2,179	i'll remember carly rae jepsen in 20 years isn't that enough

11-24-2014, 05:09 PM	#57 (permalink)
~~Soulflower~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 2,304	You said that what makes an Icon to you was a person that is famous and then you went on to say that its silly to imply that none of the pop stars out today will be Icons without no reasoning. Yes you did need to explain. You never really explained your criteria in detail which was all I simply asked. Kanye's significant albums: College Dropout, My Beautiful Dark Convoluted List of Adjectives, Yeezus. How are these albums Iconic and how have they made a significant impact on music? Musical impact: making popular the use of soul samples as well as the gritty industrial techno hip hop sound of Yeezus. Artists have been sampling music before he was born. That is not a groundbreaking significant contribution to music. Iconic moment: 'Imma let you finish'. Memeified, prominently used pop culture reference, even people who have never heard his music know Kanye's an arrogant *****. But is this something that is so groundbreaking that it will be remembered 50 years from now? I don't think it made a cultural impact and I also don't see how that relates to music. Janet will never have to release another album because her legacy is stamped. She has made iconic albums and has iconic moments that will always been remembered and viewed as an influence. She is still relevant today among st the current popular acts. I think you are not understanding the questions. You still have not really explained any significant contributions he has made or groundbreaking things he has done related to his music. Sampling is not innovative and was done before him and might I add done better. An example of an Iconic album is Janet Jackson's Rhythm Nation. That album broke cultural barriers with its social conscious message, themes, and creative music videos. It is a very influential album till this day all the way down to the look. There hasn't been a female pop star in the last 20 something years that has made an album as socially conscious sense. Madonna hasn't even made a political album as daring as RN.